How Sensitive People Can Have The Best Relationships with Lisa Chen, LMFT

Are you a highly sensitive person in love? Do you ever wonder if your sensitivity is “too much” for relationships—or if it could actually be your greatest strength? 💜

In this interview, I sit down with Lisa Chen, LMFT, a psychotherapist and highly sensitive person herself, to explore the unique gifts and struggles HSPs bring to love. Together we discuss:

✨ What it really means to be a highly sensitive person in relationships
✨ The hidden strengths HSPs bring to intimacy and connection
✨ Common struggles HSPs face in love (and how to overcome them)
✨ What happens when one partner is highly sensitive and the other is not
✨ Practical tools for conflict, communication, and boundaries
✨ How HSPs can express needs without guilt or fear of being “too much”

Discover how to nurture stronger interpersonal relationships and build emotional intelligence as an HSP. Learn how understanding hsp traits can deepen empathy and improve communication in your relationships. Enhance your connection with these valuable relationship tips.

Chapters

00:00 – Introduction: Sensitivity in Relationships
01:21 – Meet Lisa Chen, Psychotherapist & HSP
01:32 – Is Sensitivity a Weakness or a Strength?
02:18 – The Highs & Lows of HSP Relationships
03:26 – What Does It Mean to Be a Highly Sensitive Person?
05:51 – Unique Strengths HSPs Bring to Love
07:41 – Common Struggles: Boundaries & Overwhelm
08:25 – The Saviour Complex & Codependency
10:39 – Dysregulation & Shutdown in HSP Couples
12:22 – When One Partner is HSP and the Other Isn’t
13:02 – Regulating the Nervous System & Taking Breaks
14:58 – Window of Tolerance: Staying Grounded
17:16 – HSPs and Attachment Styles in Conflict
18:03 – Signs of “Going Offline” & Relationship Lessons
20:05 – Strategies for Handling Conflict as an HSP
22:26 – Tools for Regulation: Nature, Pets, & Rituals
23:39 – Staying Connected as a Couple After Conflict
24:53 – Daily Rituals & Joy Practices for HSPs
26:26 – Bookending the Day: Joy & Gratitude Practices
27:27 – Balancing Joys & Sorrows in Life & Love
27:54 – Closing Thoughts & Reflections

📌 More episodes on Highly Sensitive People in Love:

▶️ Listen to my conversation with my husband Nathaniel about two HSPs in a long-term relationship

https://www.buzzsprout.com/admin/2022477/episodes/11403778-the-pros-cons-of-two-highly-sensitive-people-in-a-relationship

▶️ The Secret to Relationships for Highly Sensitive People

https://www.buzzsprout.com/admin/2022477/episodes/17746299-how-can-highly-sensitive-people-thrive-in-relationships


To receive Esther's FREE report designed to help HSPs create better boundaries called, "10 Tips for Getting Rid of Relationships That Drain Your Energy":

https://www.estherkane.com/#newsletter

Instagram: @estherkanemsw
Facebook: Esther Kane, MSW, RCC

Links

To watch episodes on Esther's YouTube Channel:

https://www.youtube.com/@compassionateconversations441

www.estherkane.com

Subscribe to my newsletter to receive either of these for FREE:10 Tips for Getting Rid of Relationships That Drain Your Energy or the 6-part audio program, Making Peace With Food and Our Bodies: 

https://www.estherkane.com/#newsletter

 

Transcript

Have you ever been told you're too sensitive in your relationships? Maybe you notice things your partner doesn't, feel emotions more deeply, or get overwhelmed more quickly in conflict. What if I told you that your sensitivity isn't a weakness at all, but one of the greatest strengths you can bring to love? Today, we're exploring how highly sensitive people can thrive in relationships, and I've brought on a very special guest to help us unpack it all.

If you haven't checked out my other videos on this topic, you can watch me and my husband Nathaniel discuss what it's like for two highly sensitive people in a long-term relationship by clicking on this link. You can also check out a video of me discussing the pros and cons of being a highly sensitive person in love by clicking on this link. Now, back to business. I am thrilled to be interviewing Lisa Chen; psychotherapist and founder of Lisa Chen and Associates Therapy in Hermosa Beach, California. As both a former corporate executive and a highly sensitive person herself, Lisa deeply understands the challenges HSPs and high achievers face. She now helps HSPs and couples turn their sensitivity into a true superpower and create thriving relationships. Welcome, Lisa.

Speaker 1 (01:21)
Thank you Esther, it's really great to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:23)
Many highly sensitive people feel like their sensitivity is a problem in relationships.

Is that true or could it be a hidden strength?

Speaker 1 (01:32)
It's a really good question. I think initially people think it's a flaw or a weakness, but I actually think it can be a real superpower. HSPs are so attuned and bring attunement. Esther, did you say your husband is a HSP as well?

Speaker 2 (01:46)
Yes,

we've got two HSPs in one household- 27 years.

Speaker 1 (01:51)
Yeah, that's incredible. I'm sure you have your own data because I think it just look at HSP. HSP is a wow. That's incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:59)
A lot of HSPs say, it must be great, but it's got a lot of downsides. So that video that I was referring to earlier, yeah, we talk about pluses and the minuses. When we're both having a rough day, and we're both overwhelmed and our nervous systems have kind of blown a fuse that way, it's hard.

Speaker 1 (02:18)
I'm so glad that you mentioned that. And it's like the highs are highs and maybe the lows are lows in some ways at times, right? I think the other thing that I would imagine is like boundaries, like feeling too empathetic for the other person or sort of identifying something and reacting on the HSP-ness and sort of what is happening in this moment at times...

Speaker 2 (02:42)
My tendency is to try to save my husband and have all the answers plus I'm a therapist on top of it all and I've learned he just does this, puts his hand out and says Stop- all I need you to say is that sucks

Speaker 1 (02:55)
You

Speaker 2 (02:57)
Very hard.

Speaker 1 (02:59)
That's good, It's very hard. think being an HSP, knowing when you're an HSP and when you're with somebody that's not an HSP is knowing something, guessing an emotion or a mood before they themselves realize it, you know? And so that can be a superpower and that also could be a weakness because we start managing something that is not yet quite there.

or quite realized,

Speaker 2 (03:26)
For those who may not know, how would you define what it means to be a highly sensitive person in the context of intimate relationships?

Speaker 1 (03:34)
The way that I define a highly sensitive person is we tend to experience emotions a lot more deeply. We tend to experience the physical senses a lot more deeply. So we are more prone to sensory stimulation and overstimulation.

For example, we love like touch, like I'm wearing cashmere. I know a lot of my HSP's love. I love my fibers. Natural fibers. Silk? That's great. It's not like a personality trait, but it's more of like how we go about in the world. And it's like, how do we regulate our nervous systems? And so in what an HSP looks like in a relationship is

It can be beautiful. It can be really a person very attuned to their partner and remembering something that was said three months ago or in passing and remembering a special flavor of tea or really hearing or experiencing or knowing when a partner might need a hug. The touch feels really great. It's guessing the needs of a partner before

the partner even knows it or a mood, that's what it means to be in part of an HSP, on a, on the great side, you were just talking about the pros and cons. But it also means on the flip side, in the context of relationship that we might tend to get stimulated too easily in a conversation that might be difficult. Like if a partner is feeling some feelings,

we might end up taking responsibility for it because we can feel the feelings and want to be able to solve it. So there's some other challenges that go with being HSP in a relationship, but that can be completely overcome. It's not something that ends up being a long-standing issue that ends up being a crack in the foundation of relationship.

It's something that you learn to cope with, and it's really communication of what your needs are and knowing your HSP-ness.

Like when I know that something's coming up in the context of my part, and I used to make excuses or sort of apologize for getting way too upset or way too emotional.

Speaker 2 (05:51)
So just looking at the questions here but let's see if you have any more thoughts about the unique strengths HSPs bring to their romantic relationships.

Speaker 1 (06:01)
I think that the one thing I would say is that if the HSP is, cause I've actually worked with HSP and HSP, like, such as you and your husband, and I've seen them on the other side where they've gotten to a point where they become almost avoidant with each other. Like they look avoidant because it's just too overstimulating to have conversations. But in the context of having an HSP with

a non-HSP person, I've seen clients and couples be able to sense when there might be a conflict coming and be able to manage and sort of slow down, the conversation and recognize that this is something that is very vulnerable or sensitive and sort of slow down the pace and be able to

co-regulate.

Speaker 2 (06:42)
So that's the HSP partner you're talking about?

Speaker 1 (06:45)
HSP

partner, yeah. So it's kind of a beautiful experience, the HSP can know that this might be a very sensitive topic and help to manage the other person's nervous system in a way to be able to approach it, but be able to approach it in a way effectively. When we are our best selves, HSP can serve as a guide.

know, guide for difficult.

Yeah, incredibly emotionally intelligent and we're hyper attuned and that can feel like a beautiful experience to the other person. We're almost like Ferraris. I've never ridden a Ferrari, but like a Ferrari, we're so fast and we're so attuned and we're so fantastic in that way. But we also need to know how to manage the power that we bring.

Speaker 2 (07:41)
Yeah,

You spoke to this a little bit, but I'm wondering if you've got any more thoughts about some of the most common struggles that HSP's face in love. So we know we're like Ferraris and we have these super powers, but where do we get tripped up?

Speaker 1 (07:58)
We get really tripped up by first and foremost boundaries. We somehow take on our partners emotions and we feel like it's ours to fix we feel it so strongly. And so we can assume that they feel it as strongly as we do. And we get into really hero mode or saviour mode and we really want to tend to their emotions when

it can feel like we want to jump in and save them.

Speaker 2 (08:25)
Do you know about Terri Cole, the Boundary Boss woman? I'm in love with her. She's a kick-ass therapist. She's in New York and tells it like it is, but she talks about the saviour complex and she calls people like you were just describing, high functioning codependents.

Speaker 1 (08:43)
Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (08:44)
It

was so good. I was listening to her on her podcast and I had to just stop and just take a breath because she said, every time you're trying to save someone, you need to stop and ask yourself, what would I have to sit with if I didn't try and save this person?

Do you know what I came up with? What? I came up with, don't know who I am if I'm not trying to save somebody. What's my purpose if I'm not trying to save somebody? Right. I think we're like these little, superheroes. We go in there and try to save everybody. People don't need saving, right? That's not our job.

Speaker 1 (09:20)
saving. That's not our job. Here's a question back at you. Do you think a lot of HSPs struggle with codependency?

Speaker 2 (09:28)
Yes, yes, because.

Speaker 1 (09:31)
It just came up in my mind when you were saying that.

Speaker 2 (09:34)
There was some study done The mirror neurons in our brains, HSPs, we have a different setup So we can't tell the difference between what is our pain and someone else's pain, literally. Oh my gosh, does that lead to codependency?

Speaker 1 (09:47)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:49)
If you're feeling someone else's pain, but you feel it like it's your own, you might get a bit mixed up and cross some boundaries of your own and theirs.

Speaker 1 (09:53)
You

Exactly, And I've seen that happen in some of my couples work. And, it's also, taking care of other people. And then slowly setting your own boundaries is like, the definition of like, I guess it's more of same, right? It's more of like, if we're feeling so much, we might lean on our partners to help us regulate, in some ways. And that might look like,

We can only handle so much conflict in some ways. In some cases, in some couples, we might be reliant on our, partners not to get so upset at us because we're so sensitive to conflict, So, that, doesn't work either. Once we understand that it's ours to manage.

Speaker 2 (10:39)
I'm just laughing thinking about my husband because we're both so sensitive that if I say something, I can see he's wounded or he gets dysregulated. He tends to shut down. So in terms of dysregulation, what I notice is that HSPs, we're not fighters, we're not fleers. We tend to collapse. We tend to shut down. We tend to freeze. Right? So I see my husband collapse.

And then I, I've mortally wounded him, but then I'm in a state, what have I done? And then I collapse and I'm frozen. And then we're both just sitting there like puddles on the floor. It's not very helpful.

Speaker 1 (11:15)
That almost describes one current couple that I work with, almost to the T. They almost come across like avoidant attachment styles because when they're feeling emotions, they start shutting down so much. And it's really, really a difficult and painful area.

They don't even bring up issues at this point. when they first came in, they just managed, they are just like, everything's great. Everything's great because they were just, well, first of all, they didn't realize that they're highly sensitive, So they thought themselves to match, something was wrong and they're still working through it. They're working through the idea that their partner's emotions are not theirs to fix. And that, you know, it's just almost like this

muck, like, like what you were saying, what, who's emotion is that their emotion or my emotion, the codependency and the enmeshment and the need to fix. So if one partner might say, Hey, I'm not feeling so good. The other partner's quick to say, what can I do? This is my responsibility. It's because of me.

Speaker 2 (12:22)
What challenges come up when one partner is highly sensitive and the other isn't? And how can they bridge that gap? do you have an example of a couple that you're working with where that is the case and you're helping them to, find their way back to each other when one is HSP, one isn't?

Speaker 1 (12:42)
It's learning to regulate your own nervous system, knowing when the alarms are sounding off and finding the strength or being able to say raise your hand and say, I need a break.

Speaker 2 (12:52)
Can you talk more about how to do that? Because that is, I think, one of the biggest struggles for HSPs. How do we learn to regulate our own nervous system? What tips do you have?

Speaker 1 (13:02)
So one is knowing that it's okay to ask for breaks, And to find time and talk about it as a couple ahead of time when you're not in the moment to need to take a break. Because as you said, you're in a freeze state. Like it's a common, I think HSPs do get in the freeze states and like in a freeze state, you can't advocate for yourself. Your brain is offline.

It's in the amygdala, right? It's not in the prefrontal. We don't have our logic wise mind. So we want to first of all, talk about it at a time where we're not, our nervous systems feel out of control or we're completely dysregulated. So we want to advocate for ourselves. Then we need to create our toolbox. We need to be able to figure out like what is the soothing mechanisms. that's where I actually really love a lot of somatic practices.

deep breathing, doing the voo, practicing voo, bringing sound.

Speaker 2 (13:59)
I

just wanted to intervene with, was just thinking something I use with my clients is, working with trauma, for example, being within our window of tolerance, right? Exactly. So below the window of tolerance is hypo-arousal, where we're frozen and shut down, collapsed. And then above our window of arousal is hyper-arousal. And that's when we're just, fight or flight and going out of our skin.

we need to come back into the window of tolerance. I think that's kind of what you're saying there. when our brain comes back online. when, do you know that little thing with your hand, this is the amygdala, the primal brain, and this is the big brain, right? So what happens when we get triggered like that is boom, the brain goes offline and then it's just our primal nervous system reacting, right? So we need the brain to come back online.

And we do that by regulating our nervous system, getting into our window of tolerance. So you said deep breathing, the "VOO"

Speaker 1 (14:58)
Breathing,

I like the DBT skill of using ice, like changing the temperature, But most often it's like, we need actually a hard break. An HSP person needs a hard break, like to stop the current conversation, to turn inwards and to figure out what is it that that person in that moment needs. And generally we want,

that person to have actually practiced those skills to rely on them I'm so happy you brought up the window of tolerance because I talk about the window, like I would say one to 10, if it's a seven conversation, you know you're reaching your limit. It's like a four to seven or four to seven is actually where I want people in the BI. And so when we practice in session,

I really want them to start at the one, two range of like learning how to practice these tools. And then we edge slowly the four, five, six. And if they hit a, let's say a five conversation level conversation, Like, can we figure out about going on vacation and generally they want to go on vacation, which is the question of where, and it's not too stressful.

That's a perfect conversation to have in practice, but let's say something gets triggered. I'm going to borrow IFS language, something gets triggered in the way that they're spoken to, for an HSP and now something that was a level five conversation internally ends up being a nine or a 10. they've gone offline.

Speaker 2 (16:27)
I also call it blowing a fuse. I like that. I just blew a fuse.

I always say to clients, that you need to take a break because I literally believe it's like we blow a fuse. To me, that analogy really works for each of us. It's like our brain just goes offline and we're deer in the headlights. I mean, my husband, I look at him, he's gone. Like he's not in his body. I look at him and I'm like, dude, woah- where are you?

Speaker 1 (16:49)
Dude.

Yeah. Complicated, right? Because I really love attachment theory. And so let's just say an HSP acts reacts and goes offline. If a person has anxious attachment, boy, that's hard for the anxious attachment person to really give you a bit. Right. Right. So it's kind of like, I really encourage both.

Speaker 2 (17:11)
Thank

Speaker 1 (17:16)
both people, if the other partner presents with an anxious attachment style, which means they really need to resolve their anxiety is such that they need to talk rather than it's very hard to give the HSP space to be able to self-regulate. At that time, I really encourage the anxiously attached person to

sit with that discomfort. I'm encouraging that anxiously attached person to sit with that discomfort because They need to work on their, anxious attachment. and the HSP needs to acknowledge and regulate and deal with their nervous system. Because like you said, when your husband's offline, when I'm offline, there's no way to get to me.

Speaker 2 (17:54)
I think it's very obvious when an HSP is offline, like they're just gone.

Speaker 1 (17:58)
Yeah,

what cues do you see in your husband when they're gone?

Speaker 2 (18:03)
He is staring straight ahead and he's just like a zombie. And he's just, tuned out. if we're in a group settings, I'm a little more extroverted than him. We're both introverted HSPs, but I can do crowds more easily, groups of people. He just clams right up. So I look over at him a lot and check on him. So what I'm trying to work on is he goes out.

of his body a lot, he is offline. We had this discussion where I said, well, I really love going to these little groups of people. And he said, well, I don't like it. I feel invisible, whatever. we had an honest conversation. said, well, why don't I go by myself? And so I said, you can come when you feel like it and don't when you don't. And so that's worked really well for us because I, as an HSP,

feels so responsible for his experience that I can't enjoy myself if he's tuned out, if he's checked out like that. I'd like to say that it doesn't affect me, but it does. And that's my work. So the other piece I wanted to bring in, as two HSP women and therapists, we can have this conversation, is I believe that the people in our life are brought to us, especially partners, as spiritual teachers.

And that the people that piss us off and irritate us the most are often the ones that we, should be grateful for because we are learning these lessons. So I believe that intimate relationships are really about healing. they heal from our wounds, from the past, from the traumas we've been through. I think just being an HSP is...

traumatic in this world, just experiencing the world as an HSP.

So you touched on this before, HSPs feeling overwhelmed by conflict. we freeze, we shut down. So what strategies do you suggest for navigating disagreements in a healthy way?

You gave an example of one couple that you work with and how the woman needed to take a time out. Do you have any other tips?

Speaker 1 (20:05)
creating internal awareness, emotional awareness of your nervous system really, and knowing when you have exceeded the window of tolerance and then being able to speak up for yourself. Now, all these things are really hard. I think the first one would be easy, because we're so attuned to ourselves, but.

in this case of this one couple that I'm thinking about, she is dismissed and pushed down and neglected her own sensitivity that she blames herself and says, I need to be in this conversation, even though

her alarm in her body is saying, absolutely not. each of these things can be a hard step. One is really recognizing and saying, hey, my sensitivity is sending the alarm sounds and I gotta listen to this and it's okay for me to speak up. The second part is, knowing when the window of tolerance, understanding what's going on internally and knowing where you are in the magnitude of dysregulation.

Have you reached a point where you're near shutdown phase and then believing and knowing with certainty, this is not going to go well because sometimes people at this stage say, I can handle a little bit more or we're kind of getting close or guilt sets in and says, I can see he's really upset. so I can just have a little bit more, but really there is a line that crosses for the HSP where we are so dysregulated. We, need a timeout.

and the third is figuring out what the self soothing mechanisms are to be able to like say, I need a timeout. I'm going to come back 20 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever. And then I promise I'm not going anywhere. We're going to re-engage in this conversation. I just need a break. So those are really the three fundamental steps that I think every HSP needs when they're entering into relationship. the very thing that it starts with is

that the HSP's needs are valid and real. It's not about being too sensitive. It's not about being too much. It's just the way that our nervous system acts. our partners who love us and care about us need to understand it's more of a nervous system thing and how we see things, not a personality trait that needs to be worked on in couples therapy and hammered out. It's more to be respected.

just like the other partners needs need to be respected and understood.

Speaker 2 (22:26)
Beautifully put. so many HSPs find they come back online by being in nature or being with a pet, an animal, being quiet, you all the senses. if you can like sometimes just being in a quiet room in the dark with your eyes covered, listening to ocean sounds or whatever it is, will regulate you.

Speaker 1 (22:34)
Yeah.

Those things, when our mind goes offline, it's really using our parasympathetic system to help us come back online, because our brain is gone. So we need to use our body. So I love all the things that you mentioned, like sight, sound, touch, like touching an animal, a favourite pet, or If you have a favourite weighted blanket or cashmere,

find it and rub it and hold it. I love doing the butterfly hug, I feel so nice right now doing it.

We all have our toolbox that helps us ground and it could be a variety of things. It could be splashing water on your face. I love the nature. I live right by the beach. I always tell people to go out for walks by the ocean. Have a favourite playlist that's very calming.

meditation is a little hard thing to do. Like when you're already, Do you find meditation helpful? I feel like when you're too dysregulated, it's not the time for meditation.

Speaker 2 (23:39)
Exactly. I find movement, so moving the body, so going for a walk.

Are there any other things you can think of in terms of a couple to stay connected? Like once they're regulated again, things that they can do together, rituals that they can have, things that ground them together?

Speaker 1 (23:57)
I would reach and, lean into their language of love, if our partner feels loved by touch, it's like almost like a repair, repair after rupture, whatever each other person needs to go back. Sometimes it's laughter, sometimes it's,

affirmations, whatever it is, that is the place to sort of say, I see you, I want to do something for you. I still, love you, that would be the routine or the ritual. how do couples who get into a rupture or when, dysregulated or hurt feelings come up to reinforce that you are my person.

that we have a foundation. each couple has their own ritual and routine. And that is how they feel loved and the relationship is strong is what I would encourage. And then for the HSP, which I'm sure you would say is do your own work. it's like,

exercising every day.

Speaker 2 (24:53)
I was just thinking of a cute thing my husband and I do.

before dinner while we're preparing dinner is to put on some

music really loudly and dance around the kitchen and really dance. And it's very private. We don't kind of look at each other. We don't dance together because we're both kind of shy, but we do our own little dance things.

It really helps. You've got to move the energy, do you find that? we hold in a lot.

Speaker 1 (25:20)
We do.

yes. After a long day, I'm so deeply enriched by all my clients, but They take a lot of energy for a presence. when I used to go home to my partner,

I would feel guilty because he has a day, he wants me to hear it. And I found myself, I was not listening. For a therapist to turn that off.

Speaker 2 (25:38)
I am terrible at night. By the time I've seen my clients all day the last thing I want to do is say how was your day?

Speaker 1 (25:52)
is that you're got so many stories and you're still, I'm sure you're still processing, you're still holding those stories. There's no more room, there's no more room. And so I do my own ritual and I take a hot bath, put lavender oil and magnesium salts and I just sit there in silence. And then I'm basically ready to come back and come back.

What he's made into a couple routine is he'll sometimes prepare the bath. He'll put it together because he knows this is something important to me. I feel really loved and taken care of when that happens.

Speaker 2 (26:26)
Isn't that nice? I call it bookending. I think that HSPs especially, we need to bookend the beginning and the end of the day. So one thing I always tell people, and this can be useful to couples as well, is I start my day with what are three things that will bring me joy today and what are three things that I'm grateful for. And then when my head hits the pillow, what were three things that brought me joy today and what were three things that I'm grateful for today. I like that. ⁓

Speaker 1 (26:53)
That's beautiful.

I like that. The thing that the daily rituals reminded me of Gottman, he believes in daily rituals for the couple, either sharing it together, like starting the day, Gottman says, it's really important to start the day not

what are you guys, doing, but what are you looking forward to? It's sort of a little bit of your joy. And at the end, not to be complaining about the day, but how was your day in some ways, or what are you grateful for? What did you learn in this life today? Really starting the day and then coming back together in a day.

Speaker 2 (27:27)
I think there's the tendency, to dwell on the not so pleasant things in life when we're tired at the end of the day. So I think we really have to work hard at shifting our narrative to, the more positive stuff it's not to deny the negatives, but they talk about in Buddhism, 10,000 joys on the one hand and 10,000 sorrows on the other. Right.

Speaker 1 (27:48)
In

play.

Speaker 2 (27:49)
Always keeping those two in mind that we want to balance them out.

Speaker 1 (27:53)
I love what you said.

Speaker 2 (27:54)
I just want to thank you. It's been a wonderful conversation. And I never know how these things are going to go, but this exceeded all my expectations.

Speaker 1 (28:03)
It was a beautiful experience and I really appreciate you bringing me on to your podcast.

Speaker 2 (28:11)
Wonderful.