Dr. Judith Orloff on Highly Sensitive People (HSPs) & Empaths

In this enlightening interview, Dr. Judith Orloff—psychiatrist, New York Times bestselling author, and leading expert on empathy—shares powerful insights on how to embrace your sensitivity as a strength rather than a weakness.

Dr. Orloff explains the key differences between empaths and highly sensitive people, how to recognize emotional overload, and what practical tools can help you stay balanced and empowered. She also discusses her new children’s book, The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, inspired by her own childhood experiences as an intuitive, empathic child.

✨ In this conversation, you’ll learn:

·       The difference between an empath and a highly sensitive person (HSP)

·       How to protect yourself from “energy vampires”

·       Why sensitive children need understanding, not “toughening up”

·       Tools for emotional boundaries and self-care

·       How to teach kids empathy, self-love, and confidence

·       Why sensitivity is a superpower in today’s world

Whether you identify as an empath, HSP, or simply want to understand sensitivity better, this interview offers gentle wisdom and practical strategies for thriving in an overwhelming world.

🎧 About Dr. Judith Orloff:

Dr. Orloff is the author of The Empath’s Survival Guide, Thriving as an Empath, The Genius of Empathy, and The Highly Sensitive Rabbit. Her work bridges traditional psychiatry with intuitive understanding, helping empaths and sensitive people live more peaceful, empowered lives.

📚 Learn more at: https://drjudithorloff.com

📘 Books mentioned:

·       The Highly Sensitive Rabbit

·       The Empath’s Survival Guide

·       Thriving as an Empath

·       The Genius of Empathy

🔔 Subscribe for more interviews about psychology, emotional health, and thriving as a highly sensitive person.

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Esther Kane, MSW, RCC

Transcript

Esther:

I am so excited to have Dr. Judith Orloff on the show. As both an Empath and highly sensitive person myself, her books have helped me to understand and honour who I am and to appreciate my gifts. As well, she has given me the invaluable tools I need to protect myself from energy vampires, which has been a total game changer in how I do relationships. I am so honored today to be speaking with one of my greatest teachers, spiritual guides, and mentors. Judith Orloff, MD, is a New York Times bestselling author, a psychiatrist, and an Empath. She is the author of the children's book, The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, which is about a caring cottontail who was shamed for her sensitivities, but then learns to embrace them. Dr. Orloff's other books include The Genius of Empathy, The Empath's Survival Guide, and Thriving as an Empath. Dr. Orloff also specializes in treating highly sensitive people in her medical practice. Welcome Dr. Orloff.

Dr. Orloff:

Thank you Esther, I'm so happy to be on with you.

Esther:

I am so happy and can you please show everyone the book?

Dr. Orloff:

I'd be happy to. Love it. A highly sensitive rabbit. It's such a great, great book. So a little rabbit who goes to her journey of embracing her empathic gifts. But one thing she loves to do is look up at the moon. Very much in love with the moon, as many Empaths are.

Dr. Orloff:

Beautiful. I love the moon. Yes. So firstly, Dr. Orloff I want to thank you for your incredible work over the years that personally completely transformed my life and I'm sure did the same for countless others. I am so moved by your immense courage that it must have taken to include an intuitive and a spiritual perspective to your work as a psychiatrist. And I feel that you've combined the two so beautifully and have led the way for others to do the same. And I just want to let you know that I read your book Second Sight in the late 90s. I was training to become a psychotherapist. And I personally, I wanted to include intuition, spiritual approaches in my work. And I didn't think it was possible. And honestly, your book, reading your book, gave me the guidance and the hope. And I went ahead and listened to my intuition.

Esther:

And I've been doing exactly that for almost 30 years. So thank you. Just from my heart to yours. Yeah, it's incredible.

Esther:

Makes me so happy Esther, so happy. The Second Sight was my very first book that I ever wrote and I had so much fear about it coming out as intuitive psychiatrist. my God, what will my peers see? I had a lot of fear, but it took just getting the book out and then going from place to place and talking about it to see how important it was to people in terms of needing the freedom to express themselves, both their intellect and their heart.

Esther:

their intuition. It's very important to a lot of people. It's like to the wholeness, very important. So if anyone is listening and starting right now, this is amazing. You now is the to start. don't, as people tell me, I'm 80, I'm 40, I'm 100, whatever they are, you know, whatever time you start is the right time.

Esther:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that book is timely. It's stood the test of time. If someone were to pick it up and read it right now, it would inspire them. Yeah, I just consider you a pioneer. I mean, Now there's so it's just blossomed. And I feel like the world is really waking up to high sensitivity to intuitive people to Empaths. I mean, You coined the term Empath. I think that came way before a highly sensitive person and Dr. Elaine Aron's work.

Esther:

And It's just, it's incredible. I know that I am definitely both: I'm an Empath and I'm a highly sensitive person. And most of my clients are both as well. I just wonder before we get into your lovely new book, could you explain what the difference is, you know, from your perspective between an Empath and a highly sensitive person?

Dr. Orloff:

That's a good question. I look at sensitivity as like a timeline or like a spectrum of sensitivity. And there's everyday sensitivity that we just care for other people and your heart goes out other people. Then there's up on the line more sensitive, the highly sensitive person, where they're sensitive to sight, smell, sounds, touch, all the sensory stimuli they're very sensitive to.

Dr. Orloff:

And so they have to really honor that in their lives. And this includes beauty and it includes intuition and it includes animals and it includes looking at the moon. So it's not all challenging things, but it does include noise. It includes people who talk too fast and at you. That's a big one for me.

Dr. Orloff:

Mine's and noise.

Dr. Orloff:

Oh my God, maybe now an ambulance goes by, put I close my ears like that. I know a lot of people feel self conscious. what people are looking at me. Don't worry about other people. Just close your ears. You know, just take care of yourself. So highly sensitive people have all these sensitivities to the coarseness of the world, as well as to all the beauties of the world. And then an Empath is just a little bit higher on the sensitivity level. And the Empath

Dr. Orloff:

has all those sensitivities as well, but they're like emotional sponges and they tend to take on the angst of the world and they absorb it in their own bodies. And so that can be very beautiful. I want to start with the beautiful part as you could have the birds song and the sky and the love all of that. But you also absorb the depression, the anxiety and the chaos and confusion in the world. You tend to. So.

Dr. Orloff:

You know, goal in writing all my books, but the highly sensitive rabbit was to teach that little rabbit who's so overwhelmed how to find your center so that you don't absorb all the stress of the world.

Dr. Orloff:

Beautiful, beautiful. And I just, I want to congratulate you on writing this adorable book. I cried for my inner child when I read it, Judith, because I was grieving the fact that when I was little, there was nothing like this available. And it would have helped me so much to understand and accept who I was. And I wondered how much of the pain and trauma that I went through as a child and absorbed in my little body could have been avoided if I'd had this kind of resource.

Dr. Orloff:

So I I'm sure I'm not the only adult who's responding this way when you read this beautiful little book. And I know through reading your other books, I'm such a fan, I've read almost all your books, that it wasn't easy for you growing up as a highly sensitive child. So I'm thinking my audience would love to hear more about your own story and what eventually moved you to write a children's book, The Highly Sensitive Rabbit.

Dr. Orloff:

Well, the children's book is based on my childhood and the rabbit's name is Aurora and that's my nickname as an adult. You people call me Aurora when I'm not Dr. Orloff, when I'm not Judith, I'm Aurora. yeah, so it's a story of how I was when I was little, I was an only child and I didn't have any support for my sensitivities, what I was picking up.

Dr. Orloff:

If I had predictive dreams, I sometimes had those, or I'd know things before they happened. And my parents finally just said, never mention another one of your dreams or intuitions again, because we don't want to hear it. They're too negative.

Esther:

Was that, I read in one of your books that you predicted your grandfather died. You knew he was, that he had died, right? Is that?

Esther:

He had been acutely ill. It was I had the dream where he came to me. And this is very common. It's not only me who can do this. A lot of people have dreams that loved ones come to them who, you know, just to say goodbye. You know, They just make an appearance. And then next morning the phone rang and we got news that my grandfather had died. And so

Esther:

We didn't know that that's a very natural thing when you love somebody and when you're intuitive, you might know these things. It's not creepy, it's not weird, it's just a function of love. But I didn't get any of that training. I got frightened eyes looking at me by my parents and everybody else like, ooh, how did you know that? So I grew up believing there was something wrong with me. And that's why writing this book about Aurora the rabbit and how she

Esther:

gained her power is very important to me because it's like the ultimate healing of my inner child treated well now. I treat my inner child well. I take her everywhere and she needs to be respected. And I ask her what does she want? What does she need? And sometimes I can't give it to her because it's, you know, the inner child cannot rule your life, you know, because they get, you know, very panicked at times.

Esther:

Beautiful.

Esther:

I say it's like letting a three-year-old drive a bus.

Esther:

Yeah.

Esther:

But at the same time, she's with you or he's with you all the time. You know, I made a vow when I reclaimed my inner child as an adult to never, ever let her go on her own again and to always take care of her and always listen to her and have her be part of it. Not as some separated part, but as some integral part of me. And I think it's very important for adults who are highly sensitive people. And that's why I wanted to write a book about

Esther:

reawakening your inner child when you read this book. If you're an adult, I mean, it's officially a children's book and it is for children. And it is for you, anybody who wants to get some simple techniques on how to take care of yourself as a highly sensitive child or adult or the highly sensitive child within who needs a lot of love, and you'd be happy to give it to them.

Esther:

I just love that. That just touches me so much. That's exactly what I've done personally. I'm on a healing journey and I've reclaimed that little child and I'm carrying her right here. My heart, you see, it's all blotchy. I feel like my heart is very awakened right now just talking to you. Yeah, I carry her with me everywhere and I won't let her go and I take good care of her and I try to teach my clients that too.

Esther:

That's the purpose of this whole podcast. I really want to empower highly sensitive people and Empaths to do just that. And I'm just wondering, for those who may not be familiar, can you give us a primer on some of the characteristics and behaviors of highly sensitive children or children that are Empaths?

Esther:

a primer on which.

Esther:

And what are some of the characteristics and behaviors of a highly sensitive child?

Esther:

okay, the highly sensitive child has different attributes than somebody who doesn't have that trait. They might like, you know, quiet, but they might like to walk by the creek. They might like to read on their own versus going to big stadium events or turning up the video games and playing video games. They don't like that. Usually anything that has too much sound, they don't like.

Esther:

And they might like to be with one person, but they don't usually have a lot of friends, know, tons of friends, like the popular people. You know, I remember in school, they would all go together in big groups and they're all beautiful looking, you know, and, I was never part, I was always in the auditorium looking up at this thing, this place called the upper patio where all these people were and nothing wrong with it. I'm not saying this in a critical way. It was just different than.

Dr. Orloff:

what I needed. just needed to, you know, cross my legs, sit on the ground, eat my sandwich. That made me happy. I didn't need a whole lot of socializing along with eating the sandwich.

Dr. Orloff:

I wish I knew you back then. We could have sat side by I call it parallel play, could have sat side by side and eaten our sandwiches together.

Dr. Orloff:

That's right. That's right. Everybody can give yourselves now. I mean, I went if I go to a party, I mean, sometimes I may be comfortable. I don't want to paint this thing that I'm always uncomfortable with people because I'm not depends on the people. But let's say I go in and I am not connecting, you know, with people. They don't go to many parties, but let's say I'm not connecting with, you know, with people. I'll look for the person in the corner of the backyard who's there alone and go and talk to them.

Dr. Orloff:

because I know I'll have something in common with them.

Dr. Orloff:

Yeah, that's exactly That's how I met my husband night. We did a video on that. Yeah, we did a little animation on that. We met because we were both at a party and we were we were so shy and quiet and and we both weren't talking to anybody. So I went up to him and I said, do you talk? And he said, you he said only if someone's worth talking to. And that was it.

Dr. Orloff:

It was a match made in heaven.

Dr. Orloff:

It's been 27 years now. Yeah, so Why Why do you think that so many children get called overly sensitive in a shaming way?

Dr. Orloff:

Because the world doesn't understand what it means to be sensitive. And they look at it as a weakness. And this is coming up a lot in our world today where they say people with empathy are weak, they're pushovers. They don't stand up for anything. They make horrible decisions. They give away everything and they shouldn't do that. And I don't know where these people are getting these ideas. Empaths aren't pushovers.

Dr. Orloff:

They just need to learn how not to absorb what's going on in other people, not to practice codependent giving because they do at times. No, they give too much to other people and not enough to themselves. And so once Empaths and highly sensitive learn to center themselves and to have common sense and to learn how to set a boundary and say, no, I wish I could do this. I wish I could, but I can't. And I'm so sorry.

Dr. Orloff:

And you don't have to do it mean you could do it nice. And you could be nice and strong and set clear boundaries. No, I'm not able to do that. I just need to rest tonight. No, or no, I'm not able to give you $5,000. I don't have it. wish I could I don't have it, you know, just those simple tricks, you know, to be able to say that people who complain about highly sensitive people being

Dr. Orloff:

you know, too, too sensitive, don't understand that there's a whole skillset that comes along with learning how to be a balanced, highly sensitive person. They don't understand that. They just think it's, they give too much. They'll give away this. They'll give away that. They have no discrimination in their minds. And it's ridiculous. So they just don't understand what it is.

Dr. Orloff:

Well, and I always say that I think the highly sensitive, I only work with highly sensitive people as clients. I just figured that out a few years ago. These are my, This is my tribe. One thing I teach them is to put the, know, sort of wish out there, may I attract people who have as much to give me as I have to give them because we give so much, right?

Dr. Orloff:

And that's our problem. You talked about it with this codependence where we can get sucked dry by energy vampires and we really have to protect ourselves and have those strong boundaries. I think that is so true. And I think that highly sensitive people and Empaths are actually some of the strongest people in the world. Very misunderstood, but we aren't afraid to do the hard things like therapy and self-work.

Dr. Orloff:

and growth, personal growth and asking yourselves hard questions and you know moving through the grief and the pain of our childhoods, doing trauma work. We are up for all of that and I think that makes us incredibly strong people.

Dr. Orloff:

I agree with you. And I think that applies to parents as well and grandparents and educators who want to do everything possible to support the highly sensitive children, but they might not know how to do it, or they might have been highly sensitive themselves and never gotten support for it. So they have all this shame themselves. So the work is with the parent or with the grandparent to help them see that it's a beautiful trade.

Dr. Orloff:

and their child has it and you want to support it. I mean that's about it.

Dr. Orloff:

All I can say is that the life of a highly sensitive child will be radically changed if the parents or the grandparents could support them, as opposed to, you know, say you're overly sensitive, you're too sensitive. Like my mother would say, you need to get a thicker skin. How are you going to survive in the world? And not only that, people are going to think you're weird if you keep talking like this. That was her big thing. People would think I was weird. So she was serious.

Dr. Orloff:

She had a real thing about it.

Dr. Orloff:

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I hear so many stories like that, Judith. It breaks my heart. And I had similar things. Although my dad was definitely an Empath and a highly sensitive person, I'm sure of it. But being a man and my parents are from England, he was supposed to be stiff upper lip. And yeah, I don't think he got to be who he needed to be. So.

Dr. Orloff:

You were speaking about some of the tools and some of I want to make sure we highlight those because they're so important. So my favourite parts of your book are when you give highly sensitive children tools, very real, tangible, usable tools to navigate a non-sensitive world. let's start with alone time. I love this that you address the fact that HSPs need alone time. In the book, Aurora craves time alone.

Dr. Orloff:

She feels best when she does it on regular basis. So what does alone time look like for a sensitive child?

Dr. Orloff:

Okay, well, I want to just make the point along with that is that the way Aurora finds these boundaries and these ways to operate in the world is that when she's very distraught one day, animals start to come up to her and say, when I'm upset, this is what I do, you should try it. And then she tries it and it works. So a simple thing is setting boundary where

Dr. Orloff:

she makes friends with a javelina and she says I'm the javelina says I'm sensitive like you sometimes when I get upset it helps me to talk to a friend who understands me do you want to talk aurora did the javelina joined her and they soon became fast friends sometimes she enjoyed being with her and sometimes she preferred being alone and both things were okay

Dr. Orloff:

And that's what I want parents and children to know that either way, if the child wants to be alone or the child wants you to sit there watching the moon or watching the ocean, whatever you're doing, either way is okay. And that the child needs to know that she has the freedom to say yes or no to company.

Dr. Orloff:

That's beautiful. And so the answer to my question, what can parents and other adults involved encourage highly sensitive children to do this? How can they do that? The other one I love that I want to touch on is other animals who taught Aurora how to manage overwhelm. So that's something we all struggle with. So how can highly sensitive children center themselves when they're feeling overwhelmed?

Dr. Orloff:

Sometimes This little spotted skunk comes up to Aurora and says, sometimes my family really hurts my feelings. Aurora shared with them. When people hurt my feelings, I let them know, the skunk said. It's called setting boundaries. You should try it. So Aurora did. And even though it didn't always work, eventually Clover, Moonbeam and Ash, her siblings, stopped picking on her so much.

Dr. Orloff:

So she was able to hear what the skunk said. The skunk of course has very good boundaries.

Dr. Orloff:

Yes.

Dr. Orloff:

and with a very good way to protect themselves.

Dr. Orloff:

Yes, wouldn't it be great if we could all do what the skunk does, you know? Without the smell.

Dr. Orloff:

work, but we can. We can.

Dr. Orloff:

different ways, the different ways, it was like, Aurora wasn't alone anymore, because these compassionate animals came up and offered, you this is what I do, I see her hurting, this is what I do when I get this way. And you can try it too, or not, you know, it wasn't like you have to try it. And so it helped her. And so she learned these tools from the other animals. And she began to feel more whole, and less frightened.

Dr. Orloff:

because she would hear the coyote howling in the desert. And all she could think about is he okay? What's going on? Is he cold? Is he this? Is he that? And the rest of her siblings were just frightened, burrowing deeper into the ground to be safe. And she was thinking about his feelings. that's, yeah, even somebody who's, you know, isn't typically a friend.

Dr. Orloff:

Trying to help someone else.

Esther:

Yes, I want to highlight the part about boundary setting Judith because I think it's so important, not just for highly sensitive people, but for everybody. So in the Empath Survival Guide, which is my Bible, I keep it by my desk. I show this to my clients and make them buy it. You have a chapter in that book called "Protecting Yourself From Narcissists and Other Energy Vampires". So I'm curious.

Esther:

if highly sensitive children also need to protect themselves from energy vampires. And I was sort of wondering what forms energy vampires come in when they're children. And I thought, would it be bullies? What are your thoughts?

Esther:

Well, the thing about highly empathic children is that they have big hearts. And so, you know, lot of people are attracted to them to tell them their problems, which might seem odd at such a young age, but it starts at young. And they wear a sign around themselves saying, I can help you, or I want to help you. And narcissists will see that because they see that that's a victim and they go, you know, like an energy vampire and they go and they...

Esther:

you know, tell the little child all their problems, they start crying, they start manipulating, and it just becomes unhealthy. And then as adults, of course, the Empath is very susceptible to the narcissist and needs to see that the narcissist doesn't really have empathy. And they have to learn that. And that's part of my ongoing teaching with working with people who fall in love with narcissists. This is a very common thing.

Esther:

with Empaths who fall in love with narcissists.

Dr. Orloff:

I can fix them. They had a hard childhood. I mean, every excuse in the book. It's a very hard path. And if you need to go down it, I'm speaking to anybody who relates, just be kind to yourself. It is a difficult path. And I hope you get out of it at some point. But some people just have to go down the path. That's what I see with my patients. And I could say, a narcissist, these are the signs. These are the signs. No, this is different.

Dr. Orloff:

If I could, If I had a dime for every time I have had that experience with a client, it be very rich. I know it's just, we have such big hearts and I've been there myself. I can think back. There was one horribly abusive relationship I was in in my early twenties. Awful. I only stayed a year, so that's good. But yeah. Oh, he had a hard childhood. Yeah. You know? No. So yeah.

Dr. Orloff:

So my joke now is I say to a lot of clients and they like that I say ask yourself when you're listening sitting to someone's you know, entire life story and just giving giving giving and you have these huge ears Ask yourself am I being paid for this? That's what I do. Am I being paid if

Dr. Orloff:

Very grounded, very grounded.

Dr. Orloff:

Let yourself, yeah, be excused. And I saw, I follow you on Instagram too, and one of my favourite things you had on there, I have it on my phone because I love it so much. You had this quote that is my favourite: "I'm not anti-social, I'm vibrationally selective." Can you just tell people what that's all about? I just love that.

Dr. Orloff:

Yeah.

Dr. Orloff:

Yes, well, highly says that if children and adults can read energy and energy is the kind of the invisible force that surrounds us. It's what Chinese medical practitioners called Chi that runs through the meridians and the body. it extends. And when you're beyond you, six inches or more, some people can have very big energy fields. And so you get a sense of what vibe coming from people that you like, that you feel comfortable with people who

Dr. Orloff:

You might want to even hug and people that you don't want to hug. And you get a sense of that. So that's being vibrationally selective by being with people whose vibrations you resonate with and that you feel comfortable around. Not just people who say the right thing, but people who have heart energy and feel the right way. You have to look at that. You can teach children that. Now, how does this

Dr. Orloff:

this person feel at school? Why do you feel so uncomfortable? It's kids sometimes feel uncomfortable around, you know, another one. And so you could talk to them about what are you picking up? You know, this person is so sad all the time and they, they cry with me all the time and I'm uncomfortable or find out exactly what it is. And so you have to learn and support your child to sense energy. It's everybody, if they were open, they could sense energy.

Dr. Orloff:

People who are non Empaths don't sense it that really so they don't know what we're talking about.

Dr. Orloff:

Yeah, I reframe that as a superpower. I think I talk a lot about HSPs that we have superpowers and one of our superpowers is to feel the energy of other people. and be able to like my husband, I joke, he said that and My girlfriends, if they're dating a new person or something after the third date, when they're, you know, they really want people to weigh in, they bring me, they always invite me to meet the person because they say I'm always right about somebody.

Esther:

that I can get. Yeah. So I think that that's a superpower that we need to harness. them. We're not taught to trust that, you know, our gut feelings. I remember when I was little, my dad bought me this book, which is lovely when I was a child. And it was called Warm Fuzzies and Cold Pricklies. And I think it was that it was the 70s. But it was basically about just that. How does this person make me feel?

Esther:

You know, Is it a warm fuzzy feeling or is it a cold prickly feeling? Yeah.

Esther:

That's right. That's very good. So you got that early on.

Esther:

Luckily, yeah. Yeah. And my dad is highly sensitive. So I think he, you know, really clued into that. so I hear so many stories from my clients, especially if they have highly sensitive children, about those children getting bullied. And I'm just wondering, I'm sure you have some wisdom for people. What would you say about that? How can we as adults help those children?

Esther:

Yes, well, it's very true. The highly sensitive children do get bullied. And if they start crying, then they're crybabies. And then, you know, they're called crybabies. And they're mocked and laughed and pushed around. And it's just horrible. So what the parents have to do once they see this, they have to step in and they have to step in with the authorities at school as well to have zero tolerance for bullying.

Dr. Orloff:

and not let that happen and to have punishments for the bulliers, know, bullies who come in and just have the authorities come in rather than leaving the child there all to themselves. It's just too much. It's just too much for child to have to deal with the bullying. But there's severe consequences in some schools for bullying. So they are growing and learning the educational system a bit, depending on which school they're in.

Dr. Orloff:

It depends. I had a client whose children were in kindergarten and they were starting to get bullied all the time. And she said in Europe, they don't have any bullying rules. And so the children are left on their own and the parents have to, yeah, so it's terrible, but I have to take this very seriously and not let it go. And if your child, if you sense they're being bullied at all, you have a school meeting, you talk about it, you decide on intervention.

Dr. Orloff:

Yeah, because we've seen what happens when the bullies grow up and if they have positions of power. what? Yeah. I just feel like it's our time right now. I don't know about you, Judith, but I just feel like it's Empaths. It's highly sensitive people. It's our time to use our voice. We need to rise up. I just feel like in this time and space. Yeah, it's, really imperative. And I think your book is, is part of that, you know,

Dr. Orloff:

awakening. I love it. Something I want to address, so I've been working with highly sensitive people for almost three decades and when I ask these folks about their childhoods, I get the same thing every time basically. They felt unseen and unheard. So I'm wondering what wisdom you can share about how adults in highly sensitive children's lives can make them feel seen and heard.

Dr. Orloff:

That's a great question for adults or for parents. You want to meet the child where they're at and you want to say, was your day? What's going on? How are you feeling? and hear what they have to say. Let's say you have a gathering at your house and they don't want to come and join it. And they want to sit up on the steps and look, just observe. You let them do that. You let them do that. You don't force a child to do anything.

Dr. Orloff:

And if you're concerned the child is anti-social or isn't having friends, that's a different story. But the highly sensitive child often doesn't like to socialize with large groups, like extroverted children will come down and act entirely different. You might have one sibling that's extroverted and one that's highly sensitive and an introverted highly sensitive. And so they might want to keep more of a distance. And I think you should give them a lot of leeway with that.

Dr. Orloff:

No, if they want to get used to talking to them about when they're feeling overloaded, know, and to give them permission to talk to you about it. Because when they're feeling like too much is coming at them too fast and they start crying and tantruming, and maybe they're not verbal at that point, you just want to assume they're getting overstimulated by something. And so it just gently, you know, put them in their room with their stuffed animals.

Dr. Orloff:

Turn down the lights, have it be a really nice environment and let them do whatever it is they want to do to calm down. To calm down. You don't want to keep hitting them with, honey, why aren't you going out and playing with everybody outside? Why aren't you going in the party? Why aren't you eating? And then the poor child is getting overloaded by those questions. I just want to say, some time to yourself. Just be very understanding.

Dr. Orloff:

And don't be too frightened there's something wrong with the child, you know, quote. You know, you want to keep an eye out for any red flags and get those worked up, whatever they are. But in general, highly sensitive kids just need a little bit more space than other people, you know, and they need to have their books and their animals and their poetry and their walks. And, you know, they get all that, they'll be pretty good, you know, and

Dr. Orloff:

And they won't want to go to football games necessarily. Or go with the cheering. All that loud cheering is very off-putting to the highly sensitive. It's really loud. It just goes through your system. It's like being a highly sensitive child or adult is like holding something with 50 fingers instead of five. The regular person has five fingers. But imagine you have 50 fingers here and you're feeling the same thing as a regular person.

Dr. Orloff:

It's just different, you feel more.

Dr. Orloff:

I love that analogy. Yeah. Yeah. I was so lucky, Judith. I was an only child as well. And I was the only grandchild of two sets of grandparents. and just like, they just lived for me. I was so lucky. So I got to spend every summer with these grandparents. And it was amazing because they got me. They were like me. Yeah, they were.

Dr. Orloff:

introverted. A couple of them were HSPs. And my favourite thing to do is I read the entire Huckleberry Finn book to my grandfather. I remember that every night he had me read to my other grandmother. I used to read to her. So I had university level reading comprehension when I was 11. because they just taught me this love of books and reading and just being quiet. We did things one-on-one and sewing and

Dr. Orloff:

Cooking and just being quiet, playing board games. Yeah, Not everyone has that kind of luck. So I was also touched by the scenes in the book where Aurora goes to her elders, speaking of the grandparents, to talk about what she's going through and they show up for her beautifully. So I want to know why is it so important for highly sensitive children to talk to an understanding adult

Dr. Orloff:

about their sensitivity, someone who gets it.

Dr. Orloff:

It's so important to have somebody who understands you. To have nobody that understands you and that's literally how I felt as a child. I didn't have friends or my parents loved me but they didn't understand me necessarily. And to not have even one person is very lonely. I had a lot of loneliness as a child, a lot of loneliness. So having one person who said let's take a walk, know, let's hold hands and take a walk and

Dr. Orloff:

talk about stuff. And you know, You have a friend basically, you have somebody who gets you and sees you and know you don't have to be like this person, you be yourself, somebody to just encourage you to be your beautiful self. It makes all the difference in the world having just one person.

Dr. Orloff:

It's so true. just, I mean, I just think of, I also had friends of mine whose parents got me, you know, and teachers who got me. Yeah, so Maybe just the message could be, you know, just look for those people. They're out there. The highly sensitive people out there, the Empaths are out there, the adults, the elders in our tribe, you know, of highly sensitive Empaths.

Dr. Orloff:

They are out there and we just have to find them, you're not going to find, but they're not going to be yelling at a hockey game. They're going to be probably reading a book in the library or, know, so finding them.

Dr. Orloff:

There's wonderful things called silent book clubs now.

Esther:

Yes, I just my goodness. I was just reading about that yesterday in my own community and I signed up for it. That's amazing. Can you say more about that?

Esther:

Made for Empaths where you don't have to talk to anybody when when you read a book you could just come together and read the book and and so this is you know another tribute to the Empath community where it's saying we we know you don't have to want to talk and you don't have to talk you can sit here and read comfortably and beautifully and we can all come together in silence and that concept of silence is just oh it's so it's so relieving for Empaths but for

Esther:

people who are not, it might not have the appeal. It might, it might though, the intellectual appeal of just reading and not being distracted. But for Empaths, I think it's a very wonderful thing.

Esther:

Well, The thing is we don't need a lot of people, but we do need some people. that's When I read about that yesterday, it's just so funny. I just believe that we're on the same consciousness, you know, that when the time is right, you meet people who give you these different opportunities. And I just put it out there yesterday, I want to belong to some kind of book club. I was walking, have all these free book libraries around my house. So one of the ladies came out, it's my favourite.

Esther:

book library and we started chatting and she told me about some book clubs and then I looked that up and that thing came up, this silent book club, and it said something like there's 60,000 people worldwide who do this. That's not a small number. That's quite a number of people that are introverts and you all bring your own book, which I love. you know, the idea of communing with people, the energy is like when you meditate, you know, with other people.

Esther:

That's the kind of energy that we thrive on, as highly sensitive people and Empaths.

Esther:

That's right. That's right. It's a sign also that it's honouring the need for silence in places other than silent meditation retreats. Yes. One thing that Aurora learned is that she could be with somebody watching the moon or doing something she loves or not be with somebody. And either way, it's okay. You don't have to never be with anyone or say, don't want people.

Esther:

actually, you do want people most Empaths do, but you want the kind that get you. And you don't keep reinventing the wheel every time. So now I hope the story of Aurora, you know, really inspires children and adults to, you know, come into their inner child and listen and honor that part of you and don't get too swept up in the mundane world and the adult world and everybody rushing around all the time trying to do their to do list and you know, there's

Esther:

There's another way of being with each other. And we want to have that connection. That's one thing Empaths love, the connection with other people, with animals, with nature. We want solve that. And so that's important. And I would encourage you to make that a priority. And hopefully the highly sensitive rabbit will bring some happiness into your life and some beauty with all the beautiful illustrations and to just get rid of your innocent self and not...

Esther:

Think too much about it. Don't let your mind get overly involved with this book.

Esther:

I love it. I love it. I just want to touch on this idea about being compassionate towards oneself. It's something I teach all my sensitive clients. And I just listened to your book, The Genius of Empathy. fantastic book. I love that. So in it, you explore a concept called self-empathy. And I'm guessing that might be like self-compassion, maybe not.

Esther:

But how can we teach highly sensitive children to be empathetic, compassionate towards themselves? And maybe you can, you know, sort of define what you mean by self-empathy as well.

Esther:

Self-empathy for children. like being able to say nice things to yourself instead of beat yourself up all the time. As children can be very hard on themselves. They say, I'm bad. I didn't do it right. What's wrong with me? And you can start getting into all that and you have to teach the child, honey, nothing wrong with you. You're beautiful and you're wonderful and you're human and everybody learns stuff and I'm here for you. And so when you start saying,

Esther:

I'm a horrible person. I'm so stupid. I'm this and that. You can replace that with, I'm a wonderful person and I'm learning. So you can help the child by replacing the dialogue in the mind and just really resonate and show through your eyes how beautiful the child is. I mean, don't overdo it. The Empaths don't like overdone things either, you know, because then they feel smothered. So it's a fine balance, you know.

Esther:

you want to appreciate the child and teach them how to be nice to themselves.

Esther:

Yeah, I think that's so incredible. And I really do believe it starts with ourselves, that we have to be kind to ourselves. Because, sensitive people, we are so kind to everybody else. We never want to hurt anybody. We're always trying to help. We have a bigger vision, I think, of how we want to see the world and we want to save the planet. And we have high hopes. We love nature and all kinds of things and so many gifts.

Esther:

And I think that's our biggest pitfall is not caring for ourselves enough, not shining that light of compassion and empathy towards ourselves. So I love that you emphasize that. I'm just wondering if there's any other thoughts you have about how this lovely book, The Highly Sensitive Rabbit, can help children to embrace their gifts of sensitivities. Is there anything we didn't cover?

Esther:

I think, you know, I've been giving different book events, you know, around Los Angeles, and I see the way that children react. I do storytelling, so I read the whole book to them, and they sit with mothers or grandmothers and listen, and then they sometimes, you know, add things. But what a lot of the children respond to, you know, one little girl, I think she was about four, and she said, the colors calm me down. You know, they respond.

Esther:

illustrations, you know, maybe. Yeah, yeah. So I found that they, they, they like the words, but they rather like the animals and learning about the animals. They like that, how they could be kind to each other and be animals. As I didn't want to make this book full of humans. There's not one human in this book. It's all animals.

Esther:

beautiful.

Esther:

That makes it more powerful, I think. So much more powerful. Yeah.

Esther:

Yeah, I didn't. I want to make it about animals. And so it just shows them see how they're meeting each other?

Esther:

So cute.

Esther:

It just calms them down, the children. So however your child wants to read this book, maybe she doesn't want all the words, maybe she does, who knows? But if they respond to the pictures, then just stay with the pictures, don't go too fast. And the thing is, you can read this book, and people are doing that over and over again, you know, at bedtime. As the parents really want their children to go to sleep, that's something that's important to them.

Esther:

And so this will bring a child feeling of safety, a feeling of love. They could just drift off into sleep after reading it.

Esther:

So in other words, it regulates their nervous systems.

Esther:

It does. It does. And a woman who's in my Facebook group and an Empath says she got a copy for her granddaughter whose name is Aurora. And she's Aurora's reading about Aurora. Oh, that's That's sweetness. Yeah.

Esther:

So beautiful. I know you're a busy woman, so I just want to ask you one more thing. But I'm just wondering if we could end with, I'm sure people would love to hear what your vision is for the kind of world you'd like to see for highly sensitive children and highly sensitive people of all ages across the globe.

Esther:

Yes, I want them to have options of how to be schools that, you know, encourage highly sensitive children and don't impose, you know, old values on them. Schools and educators who are able to see the gifts that highly sensitive children have and the challenges and be able to meet them.

Esther:

and listen to the wisdom of the highly sensitive child. The reason I wrote, one of the big reasons I wrote the highly sensitive rabbit is that our world is in a big mess now and it's very chaotic, it's very stressful, it's full of bad energy, let's put it that way. And these children are going to inherit the earth and these children believe in protecting the earth.

Dr. Orloff:

You don't have to convince them to do that. These children believe in protecting animals and being sweet to one another. And so I want them to be in good shape and learn how to set the boundaries, not absorb the energy, know, learn very important skills so that when they grow up, they're four now, but, you know, time goes by so quickly or they're eight now, you know, they're going to grow up and they're going to be, you know, the ones.

Dr. Orloff:

our fate of the earth is in their hands. So we want them to be in good shape.

Dr. Orloff:

I was also wondering if you had considered writing something for teens, tweens or teens or adolescents, because I feel that that's a pop, that population, know, the highly sensitive adolescents, especially is so, I mean, I nearly died of an eating disorder. I know that you had some serious addiction issues and I see it all the time that highly sensitive teens can fall into some really dangerous.

Dr. Orloff:

self-harming habits. Would you ever consider writing something for teens?

Dr. Orloff:

I would consider it. But the way I write is just when I'm ready, which I'm not ready now because I'm very much involved with the highly sensitive rabbit.

Esther:

You've got an, you have so many books. can't believe how many books you've written.

Esther:

I consider it and when I'm ready, I just kind of have a blank slate and I have a blank piece of paper and I write down things. And if something moves me to do it, then I'm to be committing years of my life to this book. Writing a book is not something I just do in six months. It takes years, a couple of years at least to write a book and then another year to publish it. So it's chunk of your life, which I'm glad.

Esther:

you know, wanting to do and, and, we.

Esther:

And we're glad you're willing to do it because you

Esther:

I love it. I love it, but I it to be the right book, you know, and I want it to speak to me, so I have to give it time to do that.

Esther:

Yeah, well, I think this book, like so many others, is going to inspire. And I just love what you said. I think so much. have two little nieces, five and one. And my mother eventually had another child. I was almost 17 when she was born. But yeah, I think about them and the world that we're leaving them. it just, I have a lot of panicky moments and fears. And I think books like this will really, we have to resource these young people.

Esther:

really have to resource them.

Esther:

and stay in your centered Empath with that belief.

Esther:

Yes, yes. And we have to the guides as Empaths as highly sensitive adults. I think we have to, That's why I keep saying we need to use our voices. Even though this terrifies me, the thought of interviewing you, Dr. Orloff, one of my greatest sort of mentors and guides, and I just look up to you so much, I thought I was going to be sick this morning. But as I always say, my "why" outweighs my fear.

Esther:

My why I'm so passionate about helping sensitive people and Empaths. We really need to empower these folks to be able to heal, you know, what needs to be healed from the past and how they were treated because being seen an "other" as "different" is very traumatic and hard to cope with, you know, but to also recognize our superpowers and our contributions and how much they're needed in the world. Like you said right now.

Dr. Orloff:

Yeah.

Dr. Orloff:

We're living in unprecedented times. It's unbelievable. I just can't understand what's going on right now. I'm sure many of us are just gobsmacked at what's happening. But we really need to be the voices of reason and peace and love and connection. And I think we have those gifts.

Dr. Orloff:

We have the strength, we have the grounding if we practice through meditation, through walking, through strengthening our bodies, through strengthening our minds, how we talk to ourselves, everything we brought up in this interview. If we do all these things, then we we're able to stay centered in the midst of all this swirling.

Dr. Orloff:

Yes, wonderful. Well, thank you so much. on behalf of all my my audience and everyone in the world, all the HSPs, all the Empaths for your work, you are really a light in the darkness.

Dr. Orloff:

thank you. Thank you.